kerdi membrane over cement board

Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. I usually use Durock. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. x 48 in. x 96 in. Building Panel Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. The site is called floorelf.com. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. I also used the Kerdi drain. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths Schluter-KERDI | Waterproofing (KERDI) | Schluter I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. The mortar does . In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. Step 8: Allow to dry. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. rev2023.3.3.43278. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Like the example above. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. . Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Your email address will not be published. It's still applied to cement board. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Gettin' a little delirious. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? Good luck with your project. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. . First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. Using Kerdi Schlueter membrane with cement board. - Houzz Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. I've never had a failure. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. Why unmodified thinset with kerdi? - qyvxl.dixiesewing.com When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. Thanks Paul! I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! Step 4: Place the Tile. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie Jun 21, 2017. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? that's home depot homeowner installation method. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. Is this overkill? Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. Anytime Mongo. I also used the Kerdi drain. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. I trust it and have never had a callback. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Caulk the gap. Do you have any pictures? Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Fixing that is not that easy though. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. KERDI BOARD: Waterproof Your Shower in 1 Day - Home Repair Tutor Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Hang the cement boar. Thanks. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. You are wise to use a cement board. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. What? All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. 1. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. I would get someone else. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Also - use a good thinset. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. LONDON. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum You provide the pitch during the tile set. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Liquid membrane over cement board | Terry Love Plumbing Advice ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. All it takes is the right preparation. 4. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. All it takes is the right preparation. Yes. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI?

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